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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.06.08 11:40:00 -
[1]
comparing apples and bananas again ftl.
This is one of the most common misconceptions we see in this forum section, ppl compare half the highslots with all the highslots of another ship and ignore the rest of the setup / fitting when talking about dps.
The ferox has 2 missile points youre forgetting, has a smaller dronebay and different medium / lowslot layout.
In general tho i agree that pure optimal boni without a dmg bonus or rof bonus are generally a bad idea (hence most ppl fit a ferox with missiles which seems to work ok).
However try a sniper setup with spike, 250ers t2, 3 tracking comps t2, 2 sensorboosters t2 and 3 magstabs t2.
rest of the setup would be a disabled cloak, a med repper t2 and maybe a rocket launcher or empty ;)
152km optimal range with bc 5 jummy.
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.06.08 12:10:00 -
[2]
Jin,
the brutix will need a fitting mods to squeeze in all the rails.
As for the roles, the caldari rail philosophy is sniping which the ferox does 50% better then the brutix, both ships still have a shortrange option, blasters and missiles which seem to work, especially in combination with ecm on the ferox.
No ship is good in everything and the ferox certainly doesnt shine but neither do others. 5 250er rails sniping with 3 dmg mods is enough to kill most smaller craft, basically the same type of crafts 7 250ers would kill if ure solo. In packs most ferox go for ecm so i dont see a problem tbh.
Ofc just my opinion.
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.06.08 14:33:00 -
[3]
btw your dps are skewed:
try the following:
shooting a target at 80km (max optimal with a brutix)
5 250t2 on Ferox with Lead M = 110 dps
7 250t2 on Brutix with Iron M = 120 dps
Both ships use 1 sensorbooster 3 tracking comps and 3 dmg mods (Brutix needs an rcu 2 aswell).
Basically the difference between both ships is only fundamental you move closer. At 40km (minimal optimal of the Ferox with AM) we are looking at 80 dps difference in favour of the brutix. 40 if the ferox uses 2 heavy t2 launchers (and also fits an rcu t2 to get a shieldbooster in the last medslot).
So aslong as combat takes place above 40km the Ferox wont be too bad off. Flighttime of the missiles is ofc a problem but they go up to 85km, so in theory you could add them to the first dmg calc aswell as a raw 40 dps.
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.06.08 14:57:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: KillmAll187
Edited by: KillmAll187 on 08/06/2006 14:45:42
Quote:
Without resuscitation the Ferox will become obsolete.
Ferox does missions better than the brutix. I dont see the 'rox becoming obsolete.
the only fact which gets in the way of the ferox is that it is, much like the prophecy without useable medium or shortrange bonus to take advantage of its weaponconfiguration half missiles half rails and some drones. So ppl will below 45km always get outclassed by medium range setups while they get (due to the missiles) the better off a blasterbrutix outside 11km (up to 20). Where the brutix has no chance whatsoever to beat a missile spamming ferox who is on his toes.
So in short the ferox is equally good / slightly weaker above 45km (if u stop including missiles at 60km or sth) and takes the lead above 11km -> 20 (warp disruptor range ends here) over any shortrange setups.
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.06.08 15:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: Kcel Chim
btw your dps are skewed:
try the following:
shooting a target at 80km (max optimal with a brutix)
5 250t2 on Ferox with Lead M = 110 dps
7 250t2 on Brutix with Iron M = 120 dps
Of course you can skew the numbers by using silly ammunition types with little damage (Iron 10, Lead 16). Spike does 18, and the comparison here shows the real difference. The Ferox gets equal damage at about 87 km. There is no real advantage in being at 110 km over being at 80km where the Brutix can deal 75% more damage.
You can also see how little a difference the greater range makes with AM. You can of course keep doing the 40 DPS at closer ranges but it's very little in terms of compensation for the difference in damage (esp. with damage mods).
It is not silly ammunition types, its the advantage of the optimal bonus that u are able to choose a higher dmg type everytime you try to compare guns. The problem simply arises at top and bottom where the ferox doesnt have the advantage anymore since we dont have ammo types below AM.
As for the longrange ammo, you are right the brutix does more damage at its optimal range but its abit unfair to dismiss the ferox bonus at all or ? So try to do dmg with a brutix at the maximum optimal range of the ferox.
Didnt work? Thought so.
Optimal range boni give a hidden dps bonus due to the ability to choose different ammo. You just choose to ignore that fact and ramble on about the obvious boni at the same range which doesnt need a genious to point out that a ship with more turrets and a straight 25% bonus will always be better off in any situation especially created for it.
My point is that the ferox has in theory the potential to be better in certain ares however that would require more then loading AM or Lead (or respective t2 ammo which is borked in itself already so really really really bad for dps comparisons).
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.06.08 15:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kcel Chim on 08/06/2006 15:45:39
did you read my post at all ?
Spike is t2 ammo, if you take the equivalent t1 ammo, Iron (the longrange ammo to even get to 80km) i showed you above which ammo does equl dmg for a ferox at 80km.
T2 ammo has the problem that there is only 2 ammo types available ubershort and uberrange. So by your logic at 40km javelin in a ferox beats spike in a brutix.
As i said hidden dps work on the ferox but thats not flat out written over it.
If your question was "Can you make a setup with t1 ammo which beats a brutix with t2 ammo" then the answer is prolly no.
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:49:00 -
[7]
youre not asking for a huge buff but u want to increase its firepower by 20% AND boost grid cpu :o i rest my case...
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